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The current state of archery *NERF PETITION*


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Poll: The current state of archery *NERF PETITION* (103 member(s) have cast votes)

What do you think Homer should do with archery?

  1. Option 1 (37 votes [35.92%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 35.92%

  2. Option 2 (10 votes [9.71%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 9.71%

  3. Option 3 (12 votes [11.65%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 11.65%

  4. Nothing at all. (34 votes [33.01%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 33.01%

  5. something else (post in comments) (10 votes [9.71%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 9.71%

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#1 Unifyforce

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Posted 03 February 2015 - 22:41

The current state of archery *NERF PETITION*

 

 

This thread is based on playing the game for over a year to see one simple thing being exploited by a selected amount of players that I am just sick of it. Please read below my reasons.

 

 

Hello and welcome to what is probably you think you going to be a rant about archery.

The one thing that is absolutely broken in mercs. Towards such a extend that people have gone out of their way to take full advantage of the benefits. Such a playstyle has become an absolute thorn in my side.

 

Lets take a look at the global leaderboard in mercs. 

 

e18501.jpg

The top 4 consists of archers only. followed by a couple of cav players followed by more archers. The only one on that list who has played some melee is Qoray.  

 

All these archers have one playstyle in common. camp and "shoot my bow only" tactic Combined with switching to defender on siege. Lets have a closer look at Warem to have a better understanding at what I am trying to say.

 

 

Warem camping on siege switching to defenders every round. Your death can not be prevented. You use a shield? You die because you can't keep facing him. You use bow? You die because you can't get close enough to get a shot at him. You use a horse? You die because you can't use a horse on siege (mostly). After him getting all the easy kill just sitting back pressing the mouse button I decided to figure out how much damage that warbow actually did. 

 

10 IRONFLESH PLATE ARMOUR THIS IS THE RESULT

 

 

4 hits for a black bar. on a 21/15 with 7 power draw build? I think that is the same amount of hits a flamberge would take to kill me. Are you surprised this mod is flooded with warbow archers? This is not the end of the Warem as of yet. All what was said above only counted for siege. In battle it is a lot worse since you don't respawn so you are forced to charge one archer in a group if you don't have a shield. Or even when you do have a shield? Take a look at the example below.

 

 

http://youtu.be/4YGqq7hPwfY

 

 

Warem completly closed off still gets 2 kills due to his famous jump turn around and shoot. NOTHING can be done about it as long as he has the space he will keep running doing his thing.

 

To cut things short now lets see the 3 options

 

Option 1 : Increase the weight of arrows so an archer can no longer kite and run away. Now an archer have to choose his position carefully and can't do his jump and shooting without being overrun.

 

Option 2 : Nerf the damage rate of arrows. It shouldn't kill a tincan on 10 iron flesh with 4 arrows.

 

Option 3 : reduce reload time by a huge amount. Archers will now have to take care of where they shoot just like xbow do. They are still faster and can reload while moving. Drawing back those longbows and warbow won't be easy. This could also be an effect that increases over time. 

Edited by Unifyforce, 04 February 2015 - 19:22.

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#2 Anchor_The_Mean

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Posted 03 February 2015 - 22:58

Hmm I've always thought that archers should have their movement speed reduced when they have their bow out, similar to HAs. 


#3 Unifyforce

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Posted 03 February 2015 - 23:00

Hmm I've always thought that archers should have their movement speed reduced when they have their bow out, similar to HAs. 

 

This will happen with option one since extra weight will slow you down. Drop your bow you will move fast just like the mechanic in Crpg has proven it can perfectly work.


#4 wangchan, The Face of Mercenaries

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Posted 03 February 2015 - 23:07

I dont care what anybody says....this is the most truthfull thread I have ever seen about classes...

 

the point is, frank is right.

 

 

I chose option 3, to reduce their reload time, but option 1 and 2 are still true as hell and I think all need to be considered

 

Homer....now the truth has been revealed...come...we discuss

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#5 Anchor_The_Mean

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Posted 03 February 2015 - 23:15

It would help if throwing weapons got a buff also (either increase damage or max carry amount), as they are a pretty decent counter towards archers

Edited by Anchor_The_Mean, 03 February 2015 - 23:23.


#6 Dawlish, Un-Officially retired

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Posted 03 February 2015 - 23:19

Draw and jump kiting is definitely op and is my main issue with archer. Slower weapon switching is also an option as almost all archers will point blank with bow then use the stun to swap to melee, giving them an instant advantage at the start of a fight.
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#7 wangchan, The Face of Mercenaries

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Posted 03 February 2015 - 23:36

Also I must confirm that warem only started going archer when he kept losing to me in duels.

Edited by wangchan, 03 February 2015 - 23:47.

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#8 The Grey Dagger, loyal servant of skod....

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Posted 04 February 2015 - 00:49

archers easiest class makes me sick so I deleted mine and flogged myself seven times to beg lord jesus for forgiveness
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#9 mco

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Posted 04 February 2015 - 03:49

I agree archers are op, shoot & run is annoying as hell, but it is at least understandable because archers are worse at melee.

Damage is fine too, even 35+ armors can take 2 shots and live.

What is completely unrealistic and unbalanced is the accuracy, every archer is like legolas or olympic gold medalist, once you learn proper angles to raise your crosshair you can hit stationary target in torso every single time across the entire map, and in medium distances you can reliably headshot.

IMO nerf accuracy so it looks like as when you take crossbow as a secondary weapon with like 8 points, i mean not fully closed crosshair.

 

Also there's another option if youre worried about 4-shotting tincans. I've seen it in some singleplayer mods. Change damage type to cutting and somewhat increase it. That will do almost the same damage to lighter armors, but will barely scratch a plate.

Edited by mco, 04 February 2015 - 04:02.


#10 sandorra, The God of (In)Justice

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Posted 04 February 2015 - 06:35

Explain to me how an arrow, a projectile which purpose is to puncture through flesh, cloth and armour, is supposed to do cutting damage. By same logic, sword or spear stabs should do cutting damage also.

As to the accuracy. Apparently you haven't tried warbows, as they don't close up completely except when not drawn. I have missed many a shot due to the arrow taking off even at close range, let alone far. You just ignore the arrows that miss and complain about the ones that hit. If you know where to aim, you'll be hitting still opponent with pretty much anything.

Damage vise, I have taken about 7 or 8 arrows on me at best and kept on kicking. Frank here is forgetting to mention that first two arrows have positive speedbonuses for running straight towards archer. Next two are from melee range, at which point most archers either draw a sword or get hit by enemy. Not to mention you weren't even trying to dodge, which you normally would.

Siege now. I believe I have already spoke and complained of teamswapping before. Not really much to do against it tho. But archers shooting from cover, well, isn't the whole point of walls to give cover and defence?

Tl; dr, None of the options is good. Shooting while jumping could be removed, and archers shouldn't be able to use 2h or polearm weapons. Moving speed while moving backwards should be slowed also, to make backpedaling less 'valid' tactic.

Edit: Oh right scoreboard. You can ignore that pos. If you look, there's 5 characters with less than 1000 deaths, 3 on top5. Scoreboard has been broken since start, since it rates people based on their score (k/d ratio basically)

Edited by sandorra, 04 February 2015 - 07:09.

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#11 The_MoNsteR, AngryNerd

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Posted 04 February 2015 - 07:41

Don't do anything with the archers. They are less powerful than on Native anyway.


#12 mco

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Posted 04 February 2015 - 09:04

Explain to me how an arrow, a projectile which purpose is to puncture through flesh, cloth and armour, is supposed to do cutting damage. By same logic, sword or spear stabs should do cutting damage also.

Explain to me, how a metal plate, which purpose is to defend against cuts and slashes still gets damaged by cutting damage? This is a game, which means balance is above realism.

 

Apparently you haven't tried warbows, as they don't close up completely except when not drawn.

But they do if youre using 18\18.


#13 Vib, Retired. Well, not really

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Posted 04 February 2015 - 09:21

I've used 18/18 for two years now and my aim has never been 100% closed so please kindly stop the BS.

#14 Remuseldo

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Posted 04 February 2015 - 09:30

Why are you so much against archers using 2handers or polearms?
Something should be done to archers tho.

#15 Vib, Retired. Well, not really

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Posted 04 February 2015 - 09:43

This is a game, which means balance is above realism.

Exactly, this is a game. And while you are right about the balance stuff, playing a game also means adapting to new kinds of sitations, be it archers, cav or whatever. You can't just ask everyone else to adapt to you, it doesn't work like that. Get a 0 skill shield, get throwies, hell you can even hide behind a goddamn wall/tree who would have thought of that?!

On a serious note, you guys just don't know how to play against archers which is why you choose to fight archery on the forums instead.
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#16 Anchor_The_Mean

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Posted 04 February 2015 - 10:06

0 skill shields are terrible, takes about 3 arrows to destroy them. 

 

Heck even normal shields (with 5 shield point) only take about 15 arrows to destroy, which is quite unavoidable against 2 or more archers. 


#17 Vib, Retired. Well, not really

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Posted 04 February 2015 - 10:08

What makes you think running in a straight line with your shield up will make it last longer? Do some sidesteps

#18 Anchor_The_Mean

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Posted 04 February 2015 - 10:12

Shielding slows your movement speed. Even if I try to chase, more often then not they will just run and shoot.


#19 wangchan, The Face of Mercenaries

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Posted 04 February 2015 - 10:14

The mercenaries mod current/previous state:

Spoiler (Click to Show)

 

The mercenaries mod state after and during we have overthrown the archers rebellion:

Spoiler (Click to Show)

Edited by wangchan, 04 February 2015 - 10:14.

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#20 Anchor_The_Mean

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Posted 04 February 2015 - 10:21

The fact that there's a rule against running and shooting when you're the last person tells you all you need to know really...

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