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#41 HollyCrap, TheMailMan is never too far...

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 13:03

When it comes to nationalism a lot of people speak about it but don't do anything for their country. For example in Ukraine most of the nationalist there are faking heart problems so they don't have to fight in the army.

You may be the biggest nationalist I know... I mean, I'm sure few of Ukrainians fake a heart condition but it's normal, it happens in every country...

#42 Wololo, ITZ NOT FUNNI!!!

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 13:50

Just to be clear though Gwaihir, that humanitarian aid convoi was stopped for a reason. Both sides agreed to let the international red cross send a convoi and a few days later russia sends a russian convoi. If that doesn't smell fishy I don't know what does. It might just be a misunderstanding but they do have reason not to trust russia.

Edited by Wololo, 08 September 2014 - 13:50.


#43 Prussia, Salty Brit

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 15:09

You may be the biggest nationalist I know... I mean, I'm sure few of Ukrainians fake a heart condition but it's normal, it happens in every country...

 

You don't know anything about me.


#44 Gorlock911, NA God

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 16:43

Why do you EU scrubs care about US elections?


#45 sandorra, The God of (In)Justice

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 16:58

We don't. They changed subject around second post.


#46 Dawlish, Un-Officially retired

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 18:51

Scottish independence vote is in a few days. I think it will be extremely close and they will maybe leave the UK, which would kind of suck as Scotland has a lot of connections to the North of England sharing a particular distaste for Westminster politics and the Tory party. Also if they leave it could potentially fuck up the entire Country.


#47 Jepekula

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 18:55

And there was much rejoicing.


#48 Megamen, One, Two, Drink

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 19:25

Scottish independence vote is in a few days. I think it will be extremely close and they will maybe leave the UK, which would kind of suck as Scotland has a lot of connections to the North of England sharing a particular distaste for Westminster politics and the Tory party. Also if they leave it could potentially fuck up the entire Country.

 

That would be hilarious, finally hearing bad news from the other side of the north sea :P


#49 Gorlock911, NA God

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 19:38

No, someone derailed the original question with "le ukraine west good! East bad duh not west propaganda ofc"


#50 Gwaihir, Votofok skitim

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 19:48

Just to be clear though Gwaihir, that humanitarian aid convoi was stopped for a reason. Both sides agreed to let the international red cross send a convoi and a few days later russia sends a russian convoi. If that doesn't smell fishy I don't know what does. It might just be a misunderstanding but they do have reason not to trust russia.

 

Well I'm not saying its unreasonable for the US to be wary, but the convoy had already been inspected by the Kiev government and the Red Cross, both of whom confirmed it was just humanitarian aid before the Whitehouse released the official statement threatening consequences for a 'military convoy'.  My point with that whole thing is that the West seems to be jumping on any opportunity to shape public opinion that they can, with little regard for objectivity. 

 

(No doubt Russia is doing the same, but we the 'free west' aren't supposed to do that, and if we are, we've got little business criticizing Russia) 

Edited by Gwaihir, 08 September 2014 - 19:52.


#51 Gwaihir, Votofok skitim

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 19:51

Scottish independence vote is in a few days. I think it will be extremely close and they will maybe leave the UK, which would kind of suck as Scotland has a lot of connections to the North of England sharing a particular distaste for Westminster politics and the Tory party. Also if they leave it could potentially fuck up the entire Country.

 

Aye, it will be sad for the UK to end after all this time. I think the UK might be the oldest union in the world, but my brain is probably just making that up and im too lazy to google it.


#52 Megamen, One, Two, Drink

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 19:52

Well if Russia hadn't felt like invading Ukrain, we wouldn't have had this damn problem, so this basically all is Russia's fault. Thank you for your attention.


#53 Gwaihir, Votofok skitim

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 20:01

Yeah but what if the flames of the revolution were fanned by America (which they were - they sent American politicians to give speeches to the protesters etc). What would America have thought if we had sent our politicians to give rallying speeches to the protesters at Occupy Wall St? I don't suppose they would have been over the moon. And since we already know that one of the US's favourite hobbies is regime change, either by direct military intervention, or by proxy (Libya). It seems strange to completely rule out the west's involvement.


#54 Dawlish, Un-Officially retired

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 20:27

To be honest I think the only people who really know what's going on in Ukraine and the Crimea are Ukrainians and Russians that are on the ground there. Everything that comes out of the media about the whole situation is going to be warped to someones agenda be it East or West.


#55 Prussia, Salty Brit

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 20:44

The poll which was done was 51% yes and 49% no. Indeed it appears the country has not got a vast majority of supporters, I'll stick by my prediction that this referendum will fail but the next will not.


#56 Dawlish, Un-Officially retired

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 21:14

Yes was up +4 points yesterday as it was previously at 47% yes, the yes side is garnering much more positive media coverage than the no side which is worrying, especially with Alex Salmond selling people on grandiose ideas rather than stuff he can actually back up (although thinking about it that's exactly what the other side are doing too). I think you are right though if they do fail they surely won't at the next one.


#57 Wololo, ITZ NOT FUNNI!!!

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 22:14

Yeah but what if the flames of the revolution were fanned by America (which they were - they sent American politicians to give speeches to the protesters etc). What would America have thought if we had sent our politicians to give rallying speeches to the protesters at Occupy Wall St? I don't suppose they would have been over the moon. And since we already know that one of the US's favourite hobbies is regime change, either by direct military intervention, or by proxy (Libya). It seems strange to completely rule out the west's involvement.

 

I would like to see a source on that. Also make sure you don't confuse "american" with "sent by the US government". Regardless of that the "west" always is involved in one way or another. "We" are half the fucking world and sadly seem to be one of the few along with asia that can keep their shit together. Being involved doesn't equal "annex" or imply some kind of pupper master role. Ukraine tried to associate itself with the EU, which is why russia got all butthurt because they wanted ukraine in their Eurasia pact thingy. Sorry but I don't see the EU getting all mad when a country doesn't want to join. Not to the degree that russia seems to think it has some sort of claim on the ukraine. Also the whole "kiev protesters are just rebel nazi scum, too" falls flat ever since elections have been held in ukraine. The current government is the legit government.


On scottish independence, they should've just held the poll two years ago (or sth) as originally planned, would've already won then. I don't really think it's a good thing to be all nationalistic then with Europe growing together, but the UK probably need to be taught a lesson about federalism, the current london-rule-them-all attitude is horrid.

Edited by Wololo, 08 September 2014 - 22:19.


#58 Gwaihir, Votofok skitim

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Posted 09 September 2014 - 08:33

I would like to see a source on that. Also make sure you don't confuse "american" with "sent by the US government". Regardless of that the "west" always is involved in one way or another. "We" are half the fucking world and sadly seem to be one of the few along with asia that can keep their shit together. Being involved doesn't equal "annex" or imply some kind of pupper master role. Ukraine tried to associate itself with the EU, which is why russia got all butthurt because they wanted ukraine in their Eurasia pact thingy. Sorry but I don't see the EU getting all mad when a country doesn't want to join. Not to the degree that russia seems to think it has some sort of claim on the ukraine. Also the whole "kiev protesters are just rebel nazi scum, too" falls flat ever since elections have been held in ukraine. The current government is the legit government.


On scottish independence, they should've just held the poll two years ago (or sth) as originally planned, would've already won then. I don't really think it's a good thing to be all nationalistic then with Europe growing together, but the UK probably need to be taught a lesson about federalism, the current london-rule-them-all attitude is horrid.

 

You're right I have been a bit vague with the 'we' when I say we, I generally mean the USA and the UK. I shall try and find the article on US politicians in the Ukraine. 

 

Haven't found the article yet, but I did find this interesting article from The Guardian, a normally anti-russian paper here in England. It is a highly regarded paper though, with its ties to Edward Snowdon. 

 

http://www.theguardi...r-kiev-conflict

Edited by Gwaihir, 09 September 2014 - 10:34.


#59 lancerlot, God of Food

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Posted 09 September 2014 - 11:01

https://www.youtube....h?v=MXfWWmpxuCM

probably the best swenglish ever spoken! And it's about politics


#60 noko

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Posted 09 September 2014 - 19:36

Swedish elections soon, pre-voted SvP :)





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