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Unbalanced Races


Hi all. I apologize for my english in advance. :)

I play this mod for one week and it is one of the best mod in warband. Im trying to play like archer and assassin. In my opinion, the races are a bit unbalanced. While everyone plays for the boring tanks (heavy armored lame knights - the easiest race to play), playing like assassin is terribly difficult. Here are a few suggestions how to change it.

* make only first person servers (result - eliminating fools waiting for an obstacle with a prepared two-handed weapons)

* cancel outfit view (watching behind yourself without turning the head is not realistic)

* cancel spectating players in enemy team when you are dead

* increase dagger speed (from 98 to 105-110 - how it was in sigleplayer) -
it is not possible for player with two-handed weapon cut faster than me with a dagger (my agility 30, trainer 10, one-handed weapons 20)

* longer effect for recipes (for 150 gold it should be at least 90 seconds, or set it on one round)

* damage deadly backstab change from 4x to 5x (or set it on instant kill) - everybody kills me for one hit ... why I can not kill them on one exact hit to their backs?

* more nights maps to play

Dont kill me for these suggestions :D.

Type: General


110 Comments

Before anyone else gets to jump at you I'll try to explain it in a reasonable way.
Assassins are not meant to be a powerful or a useful class - their only purpose is to steal gold and get the odd backstab kill. Best to play it on siege, you will be nearly useless on battle.
Assassins are also generally disliked because of the gold stealing, and most people find the class to be stupid and annoying. It's very unpopular and any suggestions that would buff assassins have previously been put down quickly and violently.
Playing assassin can be a very good money maker on siege during HH - which is the purpose of the class, to make money for the one playing it without needing to get many kills. You get speed, gold stealing and in most cases a one-shot kill in the back in exhange for any survivability.
To put this short, 90% of the players don't like assassins and the class should certainly not be buffed. It's a fun class, not a "proper", competitive one.

 

the races are a bit unbalanced.

dats racist

    • Makk likes this
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Duck_The_Mean
Apr 01 2018 01:43
You want to instant kill someone who's gear is worth 40-50k while wearing 5k of gear? Also the class doesn't actually restrict you to wearing shit gear where u get 1 hit, you can buy the perk and wear heavy armour with a dagger to the same result. It's just people prefer agi assassins over tank ones. Anyway mercs hasn't received any nerfs/buffs since the change in cav mechanic I think which nerfed lance cav a bit and indirectly buffed 1h cav and HA a bit.

Before anyone else gets to jump at you I'll try to explain it in a reasonable way.
Assassins are not meant to be a powerful or a useful class - their only purpose is to steal gold and get the odd backstab kill. Best to play it on siege, you will be nearly useless on battle.
Assassins are also generally disliked because of the gold stealing, and most people find the class to be stupid and annoying. It's very unpopular and any suggestions that would buff assassins have previously been put down quickly and violently.
Playing assassin can be a very good money maker on siege during HH - which is the purpose of the class, to make money for the one playing it without needing to get many kills. You get speed, gold stealing and in most cases a one-shot kill in the back in exhange for any survivability.
To put this short, 90% of the players don't like assassins and the class should certainly not be buffed. It's a fun class, not a "proper", competitive one.

I understand, but players play this mod for fun not for gold ... gold is just a bonus ... and my usual statistics for one map are = score 10, 2 kills and 10 deaths ... and it's not too funny :)

leeeel get good son, assassins are easy to play if you have some skill...and faith in Eldo leeeeeel

You want to instant kill someone who's gear is worth 40-50k while wearing 5k of gear? Also the class doesn't actually restrict you to wearing shit gear where u get 1 hit, you can buy the perk and wear heavy armour with a dagger to the same result. It's just people prefer agi assassins over tank ones. Anyway mercs hasn't received any nerfs/buffs since the change in cav mechanic I think which nerfed lance cav a bit and indirectly buffed 1h cav and HA a bit.

An example: I found a heavy armored knight who was afk and I could not kill him ... my dagger did not penetrate his armor ... after 30 seconds of trying to kill him I left (without success). Deadly backstab did not work, I took only his gold, not health points. It is possible to fix it ?

leeeel get good son, assassins are easy to play if you have some skill...and faith in Eldo leeeeeel

 

it's not about skills, it's mainly about ping (players with better ping have an advantage) ... as the assassin I know to open the gate or win the round by reaching the flag ... but in the duels I am useless and the backstab does not work as it should (it kill 1 of 5)

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Bloedwoud
Apr 01 2018 13:48

Daggers or any stab weapon don 't work and will bounce if there not enough speed

Like for excample if try stab while hugging you then to close to stab unless wiggle with up and down motion to get space needed to accelerate its motion or just bump

Same go's for swings if hit with the hilt or arm rather then blade there high change will bounce every attempt unless wiggle in way from sideways to make curve motion so hit with the edge of the blade

that said still need enough motion or can potentialy still bounce (most of time natural footwork does the job for ya)

Try it in duels then see what i mean

 

On notion of speed, Daggers, Xbows and hangonne can be used in couch mode, meaning they can attack faster then any other weapon when you fall of a horse or at knockdown

Due it can attack while getting up unlike other weapons where still need to stand before can use the weapon

this results very nasty surprises if someone is unaware that tries to finish that player off

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LUMINARTY
Apr 01 2018 18:57

it's not about skills, it's mainly about ping (players with better ping have an advantage) ... as the assassin I know to open the gate or win the round by reaching the flag ... but in the duels I am useless and the backstab does not work as it should (it kill 1 of 5)

well its not about ping, with ping 100 i can say that playing assassin is easy and entertaining

well its not about ping, with ping 100 i can say that playing assassin is easy and entertaining

you can troll opponents, because you are fast ... you can help your team with flag, ladders, siege towers and so on ... but do not tell me it's easy ... in duel 1vs1 you will not kill anyone and from behind if you are lucky, you kill max 3 (players of the best clans who tried to play for assassins were at the end of the score table) ... but you are probably one of them heavy armored lame knights

 

and yes, it's mainly about ping ... but for you is teleporting and delay obviously fun

The term 'assassin' in itself already should be enough to tell you that it is not a class meant for direct confrontation. If you are spotted, bail the fuck out of there.

    • Makk likes this

The term 'assassin' in itself already should be enough to tell you that it is not a class meant for direct confrontation. If you are spotted, bail the fuck out of there.

I didnt write anywhere, that assassin is class for direct confrontation ... but I will not run full round and watch how my team is lossing ... and during happy hour there is 100 players on the server (it is impossible to play this in stealth = you must go to direct confrontations) 

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LUMINARTY
Apr 04 2018 09:35

you can troll opponents, because you are fast ... you can help your team with flag, ladders, siege towers and so on ... but do not tell me it's easy ... in duel 1vs1 you will not kill anyone and from behind if you are lucky, you kill max 3 (players of the best clans who tried to play for assassins were at the end of the score table) ... but you are probably one of them heavy armored lame knights

 

and yes, it's mainly about ping ... but for you is teleporting and delay obviously fun

man, i know what i am talking about, there are few tricks to kill people in 1v1, you just need some patience to do so. and when its ping 100 and STABLE, its no teleporting, never

man, i know what i am talking about, there are few tricks to kill people in 1v1, you just need some patience to do so. and when its ping 100 and STABLE, its no teleporting, never

yes, but the delay is always there ... and you can kill only players with light armours in 1vs1 fights, heavy armored players you kill only with multiple backstabs = impossible ... I have never seen an assassin with a positive score on full server

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Bloedwoud
Apr 05 2018 20:52

yes, but the delay is always there ... and you can kill only players with light armours in 1vs1 fights, heavy armored players you kill only with multiple backstabs = impossible ... I have never seen an assassin with a positive score on full server

do i count ?

do i count ?

yes, when you find an assassin (player who uses only a dagger to killing) on a full server, who has more kills than deaths, so I'll send to your character 10k gold

 

as proof, you take screenshot and post it here

I agree with everything you wrote, but no one can say that races are balanced

 

No mounted races:

 

tanks         = damage (4), health (4), armor (4), speed (1), length of melee weapons (3-4)

archers      = damage (2), health (2), armor (3), speed (2), length of melee weapons (2)

                     + ranged attack

berserkers = damage (3), health (3), armor (1), speed (3), length of melee weapons (3-4)

assassins  = damage (1), health (1), armor (1), speed (4), length of melee weapons (1)

 

Results:

 

tanks         = 16-17 points

archers      = 11 points (+ ranged attack)

berserkers = 13-14 points

assassins  = 8 points

 

This is not a balance.

 

So I wrote a few suggestions here (first comment), but no one spoke to them anything.

For example only first person view servers (good idea according to me - it is used in several games, where are more types of character views) ... or changing a dagger speed to normal (while a dagger speed in this mode was decreased by 15 points compared to normal, for other weapons the change was slight). Why?

 

I apologize once again for my english, I know it can not be read :).

Where are you even getting said numbers.

 

First person view is a horrible idea, warband melee is horrible in first person. If you are failing on 1hit kills with a dagger, you suck ass with it. That isn't fixed by anything else than you getting better.

 

Not to mention that every player who doesn't play assassin as their main class, hate assassins, and those that play it as secondary, play it mostly simply for the fact that it is so annoying and it is relatively easy to gain gold with

    • Makk likes this

Where are you even getting said numbers.

 

First person view is a horrible idea, warband melee is horrible in first person. If you are failing on 1hit kills with a dagger, you suck ass with it. That isn't fixed by anything else than you getting better.

 

Not to mention that every player who doesn't play assassin as their main class, hate assassins, and those that play it as secondary, play it mostly simply for the fact that it is so annoying and it is relatively easy to gain gold with

It's not horrible to play warband in first person view, it's more difficult and players who play as tanks prefer easier way to play = playing in third person view. Every good archer in this game play in first person view. When archers can play in this view, why not you. It would remove viewing through the walls and the corners of the obstacles. It would be more realistic.

 

I do not know why everyone hates assassins ... assassin = easy kill for you. My main character is archer. Like archer, I have on average 15 kills and 5 deaths for one map on siege = I get more gold how I earn with the assassin at the same time.

 

A good player can not be robbed by assassin and bad player has no gold = minimum profits for assassins.

 

I just want playability and balance for assassins compared to other races.

 

Are these numbers bad? I think they are OK. They show a disadvantages of assassins in this mode.

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Duck_The_Mean
Apr 08 2018 02:14

Are these numbers bad? I think they are OK. They show a disadvantages of assassins in this mode.

Where did you pull these random numbers from though?? Every class on mercenaries has the same number of attribute and skill points spent so the numbers make no sense. 

 

Also most archers will play 3rd person for melee and looking around, they only swap to first when they know they can shoot without being attacked and feel safe. People have been playing 3rd person on warband since it's release and therefore it isn't going to change just to make your class easier to play. 

 

Also stop saying you get one hit because no armour, there is nothing stopping you playing assassin with armour it is the players choice how they build their class there are no set ways to make any class. 

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ye man, assassins are op you just need to get better

Where did you pull these random numbers from though?? Every class on mercenaries has the same number of attribute and skill points spent so the numbers make no sense. 

 

Also most archers will play 3rd person for melee and looking around, they only swap to first when they know they can shoot without being attacked and feel safe. People have been playing 3rd person on warband since it's release and therefore it isn't going to change just to make your class easier to play. 

 

Also stop saying you get one hit because no armour, there is nothing stopping you playing assassin with armour it is the players choice how they build their class there are no set ways to make any class. 

Those numbers are just a demonstration to see an imbalance of classes. Yes, every class has the same number of atribute and skill points. But while skill points are balanced, atribute points are not. One point of strength is not equal to one point of agility.

 

1 point of strength add to player: 1 hit point, bonus to damage, unlock new weapons and armors, + unlock skills

 

1 point of agility add to player:     0.5% to speed with weapons, + unlock skills ... (where are weapons, which would be unlocked by points of agility??? traps, poisoned darts, slow down daggers etc.)

 

Speed with weapons is a good advantage in the fight, but you lose this advantage as soon as you come across a enemy player with a better ping like yours.

 

You already see it.

 

+ Assassins do not wear heavy armor because they would lose their only advantage - speed. They can not wear heavy armor with strength 6. The best armor they can have is Black gambeson with cape.

you are one stupid human being

you are one stupid human being

 

You're a fool. It s just a suggestion. 

This mode is good but it could be better. Classes are unbalanced here ... light weapons have the same speed as harder weapons ... here are not agility weapons.

 

This is not a single player, where 1 point agility = 1 point of strength.

In multiplayer : one point of strength is not equal to one point of agility.

Your suggestion is denied, and even if it wasn't, mod maker won't implement it cause there will be no big updates sort of say. You won't get your assasin buffed, no way in hell. Having dual wield flamberges is more likely to happen than this "class" being buffed. You say it's unballanced. Quite frankly, it's actually very ballanced, otherwise everyone would be running with heavy armor and a fast one handed weapon that can't be blocked cause it's so fucking fast. And once more, this, is, not, single, player, or, native, multiplayer.